[GSDI Legal Econ] Legal-Econ Digest, Vol 39, Issue 6

[Tracey P. Lauriault]

on the topic of eGovernment and SDI

I have seen the same disconnect between library and archival communities
whereby scientific data and geomatics data are rarely if ever on their
agendas.  In these cases is seems that heritage, culture, art and journal
type of initiatives take precedent.  This is part i think also of the IT and
GDI divide but also the fact that science, technology, engineering and data
(geomatics, census, science, etc,) are not considered as part of a nations
heritage or as cultural artifacts.  Further, we are not training librarians
and archivists to think about digital data and digital data as we know is
harder to manage!

These differences may also be attributed to the very different worlds these
communities navigate in, but also the clear seperation both organizationally
and culturally between science/geomatics/data producers/managers/branches of
government and the rest of government.  I also believe it has something to
do with scientific literacy and the fact that data in their myriad forms are
not considered beyond specialist communities.  Which is quite odd when we
consider the growth of evidence based decision making and so on.

Bref, I think it is yes an organizational and attention structures
separation but also a deeper separation between all that is science and all
that is not.  At least this is my perception at the moment in Canada.

Tracey


On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 12:55 PM, <legal-econ-request at lists.gsdi.org> wrote:

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>   1. Re: [SDI-Europe] eGovernment and SDI (Sergio Acosta y Lara)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 13:51:00 -0300
> From: Sergio Acosta y Lara <sacosta at dntopografia.gub.uy>
> Subject: Re: [GSDI Legal Econ] [SDI-Europe] eGovernment and SDI
> To: Walter de Vries <devries at itc.nl>
> Cc: GSDI Legal-Economic Work Grouup <legal-econ at lists.gsdi.org>
> Message-ID: <47D566F4.7000501 at dntopografia.gub.uy>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Thank you, Walter, for your point of view. I think all those involved in
> SDIs and/or egov initiatives should discuss these subjects more
> thoroughly. Let's hope we can hear more points of view from other
> members of the list soon.
> Sergio
>
> Walter de Vries wrote:
>
> >Hi Sergio,
> >
> >I think it is useful that you try to relate both SDI and Egov initiatives
> in the preparatory phase already.
> >
> >It seems to me that the objectives of both policies (mostly: public
> sector systems integration  /efficiency enhancement of public information
> services / etc.) are overlapping, but that the implementation is addressed
> from different communities (IT versus Geo), different legislations  /
> authorities (home affairs & IT vs. housing,physical planning,
> environment)and from different interests (public sector reform vs. technical
> ownership, for example). This makes that you see very little overlap in the
> publications and very few links between actual implementation strategies.
> >
> >On the issue of "80% of government data is spatial", I think we should be
> ready to forget about this myth. Besides the fact that it is not a very
> useful figure in strategic development of partoicular SDI and/or Egov
> initiatives and activities, what governments have is not necessarily the
> same as what citizens expect governments to have, or what governments should
> use. If we look at citizens electronic interactions with government, then
> perhaps very few are necessarily spatially related. Even if people or
> organizations interact or complain about something that can be described
> spatially, one could question whether the complaint is really on the spatial
> information. Often, I think, there are personal, organizaitonal, political
> and financial interests at stake, not necessarily spatial interests. In such
> cases the spatial components is not what we should be interested in, but the
> political or personal nature and hidden drivers / motivation of the
> complaint.
> >
> >
> >Walter T. de Vries
> >Urban-Regional Planning and Geoinformation Management (PGM)
> >International Institute for Geoinformation Science and Earth Observation
> (ITC)
> >P.O. Box 6, 7500 AA, Enschede, Netherlands
> >tel.: (31)(53) 4874 475; fax: (31)(53) 4874 575
> >http://www.itc.nl/personal/devries
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: legal-econ-bounces at lists.gsdi.org [mailto:
> legal-econ-bounces at lists.gsdi.org] On Behalf Of Sergio Acosta y Lara
> >Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 4:35 PM
> >To: ral at alum.mit.edu
> >Cc: GSDI Legal-Economic Work Grouup
> >Subject: Re: [GSDI Legal Econ] [SDI-Europe] eGovernment
> InteroperabilityCampus 2007
> >
> >Thank you, Roger, for your answer. Here in Uruguay we are working hard on
> the redesign of our SDI and one of the topics we are particularly concerned
> with is the link between it and the egov initiative promoted by the
> Government. We are already working together with the egov team so as to
> include the SDI as part of this policy. We are pleased to see that we were
> successful in convincing the Authorities about the need to link both
> initiatives. Nevertheless, it is always useful to here some advice from
> anyone worried (as you) about this subjects. Thank you very much.
> >I'll be looking forward to seeing that discussion paper you mentioned.
> >Sergio Acosta y Lara
> >Departamento de Informaci?n Geogr?fica
> >Direcci?n Nacional de Topograf?a - MTOP
> >Rinc?n 575 3er. piso
> >Montevideo - URUGUAY - C.P. 11000
> >P.D. I had also followed the discussion concerning the future name for
> the GSDI Legal Econ Group (also a very interesting one! Glad to know it has
> a new name)
> >
> >Roger Longhorn wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Hi Sergio,
> >>
> >>The problem of e-gov and SDI linkages has certainly not been 'sorted
> >>out' - and probably never will be, in any formal sense. It is also
> >>still of interest - but getting the e-government folk to talk to
> >>GI/SDI folk is not that easy.
> >>
> >>Since the old myth is that "80% of all government data is geospatial"
> >>- or at least has a spatial (location) attribute/component, then most
> >>e-government initiatives, programmes and systems should already be
> >>taking account of 'spatial' - sadly, even in the most developed
> >>e-government systems that I have seen, this is not the case.
> >>
> >>I was supposed to produce a brief (discussion paper) on this topic for
> >>the Legal & Socioeconomic Working Group in 2007, but failed to do so.
> >>I will give it another try in 2008!
> >>
> >>Kind regards
> >>
> >>Roger Longhorn
> >>co-Chair, GSDI Legal & Socioeconomic W.G. (note the new name -
> >>approved by GSDI Council on 24 February)
> >>
> >>Sergio Acosta y Lara wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Hi all. About a year ago we listmembers could heard about an
> >>>interesting discussion about the relationship between e-gov and SDI.
> >>>A pity I didn't hear anything more about it. Did the topic lose
> >>>interest in the community? Or was it sorted out in some way?
> >>>
> >>>Walter de Vries wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Kate,
> >>>>
> >>>>True as that may be, maybe just two comments:
> >>>>
> >>>>1) I guess my comment applies a bit more to the EU than to the US; I
> >>>>have noticed that in the US there is occasional reference to spatial
> >>>>data in the egov community - especially after katrina - and that
> >>>>historically the two communnities may have come from a similar
> >>>>origin
> >>>>2) Yet, if you would check one of the major discussion fora and
> >>>>meeting places for scientists and professionals to discuss
> >>>>egovernment issues in the US - the Digital Government Society
> >>>>http://www.dgsociety.org/index.php  - one can notice that geospatial
> >>>>information already plays a marginal role, and that the term or
> >>>>concept SDI is even hardly noticable in any of their conference
> proceedings.
> >>>>Just check the call for papers for the dgo.07 conference this year :
> >>>>http://www.dgsociety.org/call_for_papers.php . The term GIS is used
> >>>>under the heading computer science, hence regarded as a tool, and
> >>>>the term "information infrastructure" or spatial information
> >>>>infrastructure"
> >>>>is not even mentioned.
> >>>>On the other hand, a term which I do see appearing in these egov
> >>>>communities is that of "bio information infrastructure" and that of
> >>>>"legal information infrastructures". It would be interesting to see
> >>>>why that is, and how these terms are used differently than - what we
> >>>>within the geospatial community would consider - the spatial
> >>>>equivalent. It may be however that the terms are used in a
> >>>>completely different context, and have a completely different legacy
> >>>>of how they were formed and described.
> >>>>Walter
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>----
> >>>>
> >>>>--------
> >>>>From: Kate Lance [mailto:klance_remote at yahoo.com] Sent: Friday,
> >>>>March 09, 2007 11:35 AM
> >>>>To: Walter de Vries
> >>>>Subject: Re: [GSDI Legal Econ] [SDI-Europe] eGovernment
> >>>>InteroperabilityCampus 2007
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Walter,
> >>>>Geospatial One-Stop (GOS) is a US Federal E-Gov initiative begun in
> >>>>2002, one of 24 major e-government initiatives under the White House
> >>>>"Expanding Electronic Government" reform program.
> >>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>From: Roger Longhorn [mailto:ral at alum.mit.edu] Sent: Friday, March
> >>>>09, 2007 11:11 AM
> >>>>To: Walter de Vries
> >>>>Cc: SDI-Europe; GSDI Legal-Economic Work Grouup; EGIP
> >>>>Subject: Re: [GSDI Legal Econ] [SDI-Europe] eGovernment
> >>>>InteroperabilityCampus 2007
> >>>>
> >>>>In my SDI consulting experience, and also simply from watching how
> >>>>the eGovernment and SDI initiatives developed in a few EU countries
> >>>>over the past several years, the disconnect starts at the point
> >>>>where quite often two completely different groups of people or
> >>>>organisations are involved in developing the eGov work and the SDI
> >>>>(if any).
> >>>>
> >>>>The primary eGov folk often first see "SDI" presented to them via
> >>>>the GI/GIS community, national mapping agencies, etc. They see this
> >>>>"SDI thing" as a tool, not as an infrastructure - if they recognise
> >>>>it all. Even in the UK, where there was a GIS advisor in the eGov
> >>>>unit developing the UK's eGovernment initiatives, standards,
> >>>>interoperabilty framework, etc. - the early SDI components, such as
> >>>>the GIgateway (the national GI portal) and the metadata on which it
> >>>>was based, were not compatible with the eGov equivalents. This led
> >>>>many in government to satisfy their eGov "information asset
> >>>>register" requirement but not the spatial info requirements. Also,
> >>>>when the same datasets are classified as "eGov" for one purpose and
> >>>>then "geospatial/SDI" for another, do we really think that the
> >>>>people in the government departments will have the time or resources
> >>>>to fulfill two sets of sometimes competing requirements. I think not
> >>>>and current experience seems to prove that.
> >>>>
> >>>>Roger Longhorn
> >>>>ral at alum.mit.edu
> >>>>
> >>>>Walter de Vries wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Roger,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I'm glad you have noticed this too. I've been going through many
> >>>>>articles in egov and egov-related conference proceedings and found
> >>>>>very
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>little reference to spatial data infrastructures, let alone any
> >>>>>special
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>sessions, clusters or tracks. If fact, I was aiming to report on
> >>>>>that during  digital governance conference in May of this year. In
> >>>>>fact, the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>same applies to most egov related policies on a global scale. I am
> >>>>>yet to find any specific reference to the spatial part of
> >>>>>infrastructures in any general national egov policy. This can mean
> >>>>>two things: either the SDI is not really an issue in the egov
> >>>>>community - where increasingly most of the focus seems to be
> >>>>>completely different issues like edemocracy, eparticipation - or
> >>>>>there are hardly any SDI researchers / paper submissions on these
> >>>>>egov conferences.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Walter de Vries
> >>>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>>From: legal-econ-bounces at lists.gsdi.org
> >>>>>[mailto:legal-econ-bounces at lists.gsdi.org] On Behalf Of Roger
> >>>>>Longhorn
> >>>>>Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 9:49 AM
> >>>>>To: SDI-Europe; GSDI Legal-Economic Work Grouup;
> >>>>>AESI-align at i-dra.co.uk; EGIP
> >>>>>Cc: Christopher Corbin
> >>>>>Subject: Re: [GSDI Legal Econ] [SDI-Europe] eGovernment
> >>>>>InteroperabilityCampus 2007
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Note once again that there is no specific link/topic listed in the
> >>>>>"papers wanted" section that would deal with spatial information
> >>>>>infrastructures, even though significant volumes of eGovernment
> >>>>>data are also spatial. I say 'also' because for many purposes, the
> >>>>>spatiality is not important, but for others it certainly is. We get
> >>>>>back to the value of the spatial component or attribute of
> >>>>>information depending upon its use for specific
> >>>>>reporting/monitoring tasks. There continues to be a lamentable
> >>>>>disconnect between many (most?) eGovernment initiatives and their
> >>>>>spatial information counterparts or
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>components.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Roger Longhorn
> >>>>>ral at alum.mit.edu
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Kate Lance wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>http://www.egovinterop.net/SHWebClass.ASP?WCI=ShowDoc&DocID=2736&L
> >>>>>>angI
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>D=1
> >>>>>><http://www.egovinterop.net/SHWebClass.ASP?WCI=ShowDoc&DocID=2736&
> >>>>>>Lang
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>ID=1> "eGovernment Interoperability Campus 2007"
> >>>>>>Paris, France, October 9-11, 2007
> >>>>>>Since the late 90's, the European Union and its Member States
> >>>>>>pursue the strategic objective of transforming their Public
> >>>>>>Administrations to become more efficient and centered on the
> >>>>>>delivery of ICT-enabled services to citizens and businesses. The
> >>>>>>cornerstone of this strategy is to help developing the framework,
> >>>>>>tools and environment for interoperability between existing
> >>>>>>systems and applications, in order to foster the development of
> >>>>>>public services that would be cross-organisational, cross-level,
> >>>>>>cross-border, transparent, integrated, secure, decentralised and
> >>>>>>available anywhere at anytime.
> >>>>>>The main aim of this third eGovINTEROP conference is to create a
> >>>>>>forum
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>for discussion between the research community, technology players
> >>>>>>and public institutions. The conference will focus on all aspects
> >>>>>>of interoperability in eGovernement, both from technical as well
> >>>>>>as from semantic, organisational and socio-economic perspectives,
> >>>>>>and will discuss the progress of the various European initiatives
> >>>>>>in the field.
> >>>>>>The Campus is expected to gather about 500 participants primarily
> >>>>>>from
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>he European Union.
> >>>>>>Conference
> >>>>>>The conference is calling for papers to be submitted by _April 6,
> >>>>>>2007_. Broad topic areas are:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>- Platforms for eGovernment interoperability
> >>>>>>- Interoperability frameworks
> >>>>>>- Standardisation initiatives in eGovernment
> >>>>>>- Security of open eGovernment services
> >>>>>>- Transport middleware for government applications
> >>>>>>- Managing governmental business processes
> >>>>>>- Pan-European Government services
> >>>>>>- Local and regional eGovernment services
> >>>>>>- Change management in networked governments
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>Legal-Econ mailing list
> >>>>Legal-Econ at lists.gsdi.org
> >>>>http://lists.gsdi.org/mailman/listinfo/legal-econ
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
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> >
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-- 
Tracey P. Lauriault
Geomatics and Cartographic Research Centre
Dept. of Geography and Environmental Studies
Carleton University
Ottawa (ON) Canada
tlauriau at gmail.com
https://gcrc.carleton.ca/confluence/display/GCRCWEB/Lauriault
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