[SDI-Africa] Fw: Re: interesting Africa datasets

Reinier Battenberg reinier.battenberg at mountbatten.net
Sun Aug 7 14:24:45 EDT 2011


Hi Chris,

Very interesting email, sorry it took so long to respond.

There is few different issues coming back throughout this thread, 
crisismapping, OSM/Google, SDI. 

Though connected, i think they all have a slightly different role. OSM doesnt 
equal crisismapping, as the latter will only happen right when there is a 
crisis, and may be done in Google or OSM. Normal OSM or Googlemaps operations 
is just people mapping their environment and experiencing a benefit from this. 
That can be anything from mapkibera to http://opengaymap.info/ Neither of them 
are crisis, neither of them are SDI.

How i see Google & OSM is very much as a baselayer. They describe the world as 
we can all see it. And eventually, they will both have the same level of 
detail. After that, we're done. That might sound naive, but for most cities in 
Europe, it will probably not really matter wether you use OSM or Google 
anymore. Sometimes Google data will be of better use, sometimes OSM.
In VirtualKenya you can see this also, as a baselayer there, you can choose 
either OSM or Google, whatever suits you best.

The whole SDI part of VirtualKenya runs on *top* of these 2 layers. That is 
where the very specific mapping is taking place: all hotels, the wildebeest 
tracks, forests, etc. That part of mapping is something that OSM might 
incorporate as well (like landuse), but it only becomes useful when its 
isolated from it. Not just in storage, but also in datamanagement.

Yes, setting up this SDI part here in africa is proving to be an interesting, 
excersise. With Gmaps, google is creating a lot of momentum for mapping, which 
is great. As long as we dont confuse Google with an SDI, and forget to manage 
our own data.

One last remark about the OSM/M$ deal. M$ does not know mercy (they have a 
foundation for that). M$ is not in this deal for philanthropy. They want to 
make money with OSM data. As long as they stick to the license, that is 
perfectly fine. Making money on open data (or source) is a business model that 
I can recommend, personally.

rgds,
Reinier




Google's outline of the city center of Munich:

http://maps.google.co.ug/maps?q=Blumenstra%C3%9Fe,+M%C3%BCnchen,
+Deutschland&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=48.132317,11.566055&spn=0.001812,0.004334&sll=1.36515,32.30465&sspn=5.555335,8.876953&z=18

> Understood, and I certainly don't want to understate the incredible 
accomplishments of Mikel and Mapkibera, Kate Chapman, OSM and crew.  They are 
awesome. 
> 
> But as I've argued on Crisismappers and elsewhere, OSM's spectacular success 
in Haiti was due in very large measure to *-vast-* amounts of free high 
resolution imagery donated by multiple sources, and media frenzy around 
CrisisCommons to muster armies of volunteer digitizers.  That's not the case 
elsewhere; imagery is expensive. But it needs to be recognized for the broad 
enabler it truly is. 
> 
> For example, it is an utter shame that Landsat 5, now the bedrock of the UN 
REDD efforts, has not been systematically collected at Malindi for the past 7 
years. Why? lack of political will.  
> 
> It is also an utter shame that UN agencies have not had access to the 
DigitalGlobe constellation, and it's 'FirstLook' service for the past year 
during emergencies. same reason. Hopefully this situation will be resolved 
shortly. After 6 months, that imagery will no doubt appear on several 
commercial portals, each with their own terms of usage.
> 
> Indeed, we'll see how the OSM-Microsoft relationship goes. 
(http://blog.stevecoast.com/im-working-at-microsoft-and-were-donating-ima) . 
Which comes back to your original comment: "does Africa really want to be 
dependent on the goodwill & mercy of a foreign profit oriented organization?"
> 
> Armies of volunteers aren't going to maintain a nation's cadastre, or a 
topologically correct street network you'd want to run emergency dispatch 
services against, or sufficiently accurate DEMs for urban flood management, or 
soils and geologic maps for earthquake zoning and portfolio risk management in 
a city of millions. Governments and NGOs have got to bridge those gaps, one 
way or another, and there will always be a cost to funding it to the point 
there are "no strings attached". 
> 
> Hence my original comment about adequate valuation of SDI.
> 
> Chris
> 
> --- On Sat, 7/30/11, Reinier Battenberg <reinier.battenberg at mountbatten.net> 
wrote:
> 
> > From: Reinier Battenberg <reinier.battenberg at mountbatten.net>
> > Subject: Re: [SDI-Africa] Fw: Re: interesting Africa datasets
> > To: sdi-africa at lists.gsdi.org
> > Date: Saturday, July 30, 2011, 4:29 AM
> > Hi Chris,
> > 
> > You seem to be reading the signs of the time quite
> > differently than others do.
> > 
> > The momentum for opening data, and sharing it freely is
> > finally getting 
> > mainstream attention. And rightfully so.
> > 
> > In regards to the google review process, the opinions i
> > read are quite 
> > contradicting with yours http://njgeo.org/2011/07/11/map-maker-for-carto-
> > masochists-part-2/
> > 
> > You should really try openstreetmap, their wiki style setup
> > makes it extremely 
> > easy to add data. And there is lots of it, and its growing
> > exponentially. 
> > Thanks to volunteers, data owners, and NGO's that
> > understand there is a long-
> > term doing-good attitude needed instead of a short-term
> > goal one. There are 
> > also a lot of tools around the osm data that help
> > increasing the quality.
> > 
> > In regards to NGO's, there is actually an OSM unit
> > especially for helping 
> > NGO's in emergency situations, called Humanitarian
> > Openstreetmap Team, or HOT. 
> > They were founded after the Haiti eartquake, where OSM was
> > updated so fast, it 
> > became the default map for NGO's in about a week after the
> > disaster. More 
> > about HOT here http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team
> > and on 
> > their blog http://hot.openstreetmap.org
> > 
> > 
> > For people who would like to read more (and much better
> > informed) reasons as 
> > to why OSM is to be preferred over Google in Africa, please
> > read Mikel Maron's 
> > blog about the issue. He is one of the boardmembers of OSM
> > & HOT, and was the 
> > driving force behind mapkibera.org 
http://brainoff.com/weblog/2011/04/11/1635
> > 
> > If you want to discuss this over beer, attached are a map
> > of our house, and a 
> > nice complementary index of that map. You can print it out
> > while you are on 
> > the road. You will not be able to make a map like this with
> > the wonderful 
> > google data, because you are at the mercy of google to
> > provide a service like 
> > this for you, and you cant build it yourself (or find
> > someone else to do it), 
> > because it would violate the google end user license
> > agreement. (which they 
> > can, and do, change whenever they feel like it)
> > 
> > So, rather fix the data quality problem that you perceive
> > exists in open data 
> > sources, and find freedom, than being at the mercy of a
> > foreign entity I would 
> > say.
> > 
> > 
> > rgds,
> > reinier
> > 
> > > Chris Nicholas has it right.
> > > 
> > > I rely on Google MapMaker data to service needs of
> > non-profit clients
> > > operating in Africa.  Alternative data sources
> > are outdated or bitty.
> > > Google is checked and updated with far less
> > bureaucratic fuss and so it gets
> > > done.
> > > 
> > > Let us move away from the baseless ideal of isolatory
> > self reliance and
> > > admit to all just being human on earth.  By the
> > time most organisations
> > > agree to release or process their data it is out of
> > date.
> > > 
> > > Google says: if you want to sell it for profit, then
> > pay us our dues, that
> > > is not inhuman.
> > > 
> > > Regards,
> > > Chris Berens
> > > 
> > > www.mapland.co.za
> > > www.simelela.org.za
> > > www.clipclop.co.za
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On 29 July 2011 05:11, Chris Nicholas <chrisgnicholas at att.net>
> > wrote:
> > > 
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > perhaps.  But sovereign governments, donors,
> > and other investments
> > > > mechanisms have failed thus far to prioritize,
> > produce, and sustain 
> > anything
> > > > close to Mapmaker, and give it away. Nobody is
> > investing 7 and 8-figure 
> > sums
> > > > of money on coordinated, offshore data clean-up
> > to produce topologically
> > > > correct street data, integrate it with local
> > transit schedules, host it in
> > > > fault-tolerant, 24x7x365 datacenters, and give it
> > away to hundreds of
> > > > millions of mobile device subscribers.
> > > >
> > > > Nobody else on this list has a multi billion
> > dollar per quarter subsidy
> > > > mechanism they are willing to tap into, although
> > it is clear oil-rich 
> > states
> > > > and several donors clearly have the capacity.
> > What's needed is clarity and
> > > > attention span on the value of SDI by those
> > groups, including projecting
> > > > "soft power" by those countries that are cash
> > poor but operate assets like
> > > > sub-meter reconnaissance satellites, if an
> > alternative is to emerge.
> > > >
> > > > But the value of SDI is quite clear towards more
> > efficient and pervasive
> > > > local search and advertising to companies
> > headquartered in California.
> > > >  Giving it away to non-profits shouldn't be
> > dismissed so readily, as it is
> > > > not at all necessary to satisfy their
> > shareholders.
> > > >
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > > > --- On Thu, 7/28/11, Reinier Battenberg
> > <
> > > > reinier.battenberg at mountbatten.net>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > From: Reinier Battenberg <reinier.battenberg at mountbatten.net>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [SDI-Africa] interesting
> > Africa datasets
> > > > > > To: sdi-africa at lists.gsdi.org
> > > > > > Date: Thursday, July 28, 2011, 4:00 AM
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > what an incredibly bad idea.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > does africa really want to be dependent
> > on the
> > > > > goodwill
> > > > > > & mercy of a foreign
> > > > > > profit oriented organisation? Or shall
> > we take our own
> > > > > data
> > > > > > in our own hands?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > non-profits can also apply to
> > download Google
> > > > > Mapmaker
> > > > > > data as well, as per:
> > > > > > http://mapmaker.google.com/datadownload
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Chris
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/28/11, Reinier
> > Battenberg <
> > > > reinier.battenberg at mountbatten.net>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > From: Reinier Battenberg
> > <reinier.battenberg at mountbatten.net>
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [SDI-Africa]
> > interesting
> > > > > Africa
> > > > > > datasets
> > > > > > > > To: sdi-africa at lists.gsdi.org
> > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, July 28,
> > 2011, 3:05 AM
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi Bernard,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > For admin boundaries there
> > are several
> > > > > other
> > > > > > websites that
> > > > > > > > could be of help.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > http://www.maplibrary.org/stacks/Africa/index.php
> > > > > > > > http://www.diva-gis.org/gdata
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Libya
> > > > > > > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tunisia
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > will point you to even more
> > sources
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > rgds,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > reinier
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Dear Sender,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I have not found any
> > data for Tunisia,
> > > > > > Libya, Kenya
> > > > > > > > and Uganda in the said
> > > > > > > > Afirca dataset. I get a
> > response, no data.
> > > > > Can
> > > > > > somebody who
> > > > > > > > has gotten the
> > > > > > > > data guide me on how to. Try
> > to search the
> > > > > > countries
> > > > > > > > listed.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Otherwise, I am
> > interested in Tunisia
> > > > > and
> > > > > > Libya (level
> > > > > > > > I, II and III admin
> > > > > > > > boundaries). I am also
> > interested in Libya
> > > > > towns
> > > > > > and city
> > > > > > > > GIS datasets.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Please help!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Bernard.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 7/11/11,
> > Reinier Battenberg
> > > > >
> > > > > > <reinier.battenberg at mountbatten.net>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > From: Reinier Battenberg
> > <reinier.battenberg at mountbatten.net>
> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re:
> > [SDI-Africa] interesting
> > > > > Africa
> > > > > > datasets
> > > > > > > > > To: sdi-africa at lists.gsdi.org
> > > > > > > > > Date: Monday, July 11,
> > 2011, 12:14 PM
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > #yiv2095210770 p,
> > #yiv2095210770 li
> > > > > > > > {white-space:pre-wrap;}
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You can contact:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > vfoster at worldbank.org
> > > > > > > > > Vivien Foster
> > > > > > > > > Lead Economist
> > > > > > > > > Sustainable Development
> > Department
> > > > > > > > > Africa Region, World
> > Bank Group
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > rgds,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > reinier
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > just checked the
> > Tanzania power
> > > > > lines.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 3 VERY significant
> > errors
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > who should I report
> > these to ?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > otherwise not to
> > bad at all and
> > > > > quite
> > > > > > useful.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Neil
> > > > > > > > > >  Neil and Liz
> > Baker, Tanzania
> > > > > Bird
> > > > > > Atlas,
> > > > > > > > P.O. Box 1605, Iringa,
> > Tanzania.
> > > > > > > > > > Mobiles: +255
> > 776-360876 and +255
> > > > > > 776-360864.
> > > > > > > > > > http://tanzaniabirdatlas.com
> > > > > > > > > > Subscribe to: tanzaniabirds-subscribe at yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > ________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > From: Reinier
> > Battenberg <reinier.battenberg at mountbatten.net>
> > > > > > > > > > To: sdi-africa at lists.gsdi.org
> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Mon, 11 July,
> > 2011 17:56:02
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re:
> > [SDI-Africa]
> > > > > interesting
> > > > > > Africa
> > > > > > > > datasets
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Some time back
> > Chris Nicholas
> > > > > posted a
> > > > > > link to
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.infrastructureafrica.org/aicd/tools/maps
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I wondered if we
> > could use that
> > > > > data to
> > > > > > upload
> > > > > > > > into OSM.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I got some similar
> > requests from
> > > > > people
> > > > > > offlist,
> > > > > > > > and I just decided to
> > > > > > > > email the
> > > > > > > > > > worldbank. This is
> > the reply
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "We essentially put
> > it out there
> > > > > with
> > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > restrictions (even less
> > > > > > > > restrictive
> > > > > > > > > > than the Creative
> > Commons) so I
> > > > > would
> > > > > > say they
> > > > > > > > can do both datasets, as
> > > > > > > > long as
> > > > > > > > > > they maintain the
> > metadata, with
> > > > > > original sources
> > > > > > > > (PLATTS, AERDP report).
> > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > powerplants are
> > essentially
> > > > > already on
> > > > > > the CARMA
> > > > > > > > website."
> > > > > > > > > > So, if you feel
> > your country
> > > > > lacks
> > > > > > powerline
> > > > > > > > & plant information in
> > > > > > > > > > Openstreetmap, have
> > fun!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > rgds,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Reinier
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > That's nice.
> > We are planning
> > > > > to
> > > > > > bring links
> > > > > > > > to all such resources
> > > > > > > > together for
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Uganda, next
> > weekend on our
> > > > > Uganda
> > > > > > Mapping
> > > > > > > > Day.
> > > > > > > > http://www.mappingday.com
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I clicked
> > around briefly, but
> > > > > i
> > > > > > cant see a
> > > > > > > > license. What is the OSM
> > > > > > > > policy
> > > > > > > > > > > regarding
> > this? Do we first
> > > > > have
> > > > > > to find a
> > > > > > > > license before we can upload
> > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > > to OSM, or is
> > the rule, no
> > > > > license
> > > > > > is no
> > > > > > > > rights?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > rgds,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Reinier
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > SDI-Africa
> > mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > > SDI-Africa at lists.gsdi.org
> > > > > > > > > > > http://lists.gsdi.org/mailman/listinfo/sdi-africa
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > rgds,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Reinier Battenberg
> > > > > > > > > > Director
> > > > > > > > > > Mountbatten Ltd.
> > > > > > > > > > +256 758 801 749
> > > > > > > > > >
> > www.mountbatten.net
> > > > > > > > > > http://twitter.com/batje
> > > > > > > > > > http://twitter.com/mapuganda
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > rgds,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Reinier Battenberg
> > > > > > > > > Director
> > > > > > > > > Mountbatten Ltd.
> > > > > > > > > +256 758 801 749
> > > > > > > > > www.mountbatten.net
> > > > > > > > > http://twitter.com/batje
> > > > > > > > > http://twitter.com/mapuganda
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment
> > Follows-----
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > SDI-Africa mailing list
> > > > > > > > > SDI-Africa at lists.gsdi.org
> > > > > > > > > http://lists.gsdi.org/mailman/listinfo/sdi-africa
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > rgds,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Reinier Battenberg
> > > > > > > > Director
> > > > > > > > Mountbatten Ltd.
> > > > > > > > +256 758 801 749
> > > > > > > > www.mountbatten.net
> > > > > > > > http://twitter.com/batje
> > > > > > > > http://twitter.com/mapuganda
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > SDI-Africa mailing list
> > > > > > > > SDI-Africa at lists.gsdi.org
> > > > > > > > http://lists.gsdi.org/mailman/listinfo/sdi-africa
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > rgds,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Reinier Battenberg
> > > > > > Director
> > > > > > Mountbatten Ltd.
> > > > > > +256 758 801 749
> > > > > > www.mountbatten.net
> > > > > > http://twitter.com/batje
> > > > > > http://twitter.com/mapuganda
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > SDI-Africa mailing list
> > > > > > SDI-Africa at lists.gsdi.org
> > > > > > http://lists.gsdi.org/mailman/listinfo/sdi-africa
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > SDI-Africa mailing list
> > > > SDI-Africa at lists.gsdi.org
> > > > http://lists.gsdi.org/mailman/listinfo/sdi-africa
> > > >
> > > 
> > -- 
> > rgds,
> > 
> > Reinier Battenberg
> > Director
> > Mountbatten Ltd.
> > +256 758 801 749
> > www.mountbatten.net
> > http://twitter.com/batje
> > http://twitter.com/mapuganda
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > SDI-Africa mailing list
> > SDI-Africa at lists.gsdi.org
> > http://lists.gsdi.org/mailman/listinfo/sdi-africa
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> SDI-Africa mailing list
> SDI-Africa at lists.gsdi.org
> http://lists.gsdi.org/mailman/listinfo/sdi-africa
> 
-- 
rgds,

Reinier Battenberg
Director
Mountbatten Ltd.
+256 758 801 749
www.mountbatten.net
http://twitter.com/batje
http://twitter.com/mapuganda




More information about the SDI-Africa mailing list